Sincerity in people

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Lena
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Sincerity in people

Post by Lena » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:24 pm

Hi guys,

you may have or not, seen that I have engaged Chad about the advertising suggestion he has made publicly. A bit of a messy thread that one, well for me it is.

viewtopic.php?p=2454#p2454

I want to talk about the latest response from him.

I feel he is again argumentative with me, trying to prove me wrong before he looks or acknowledges the issues I was pointing out to him.

I feel he is still trying to keep intellectual control & dominance over the conversation and is not showing any desire to develop humility.

That's what i feel, however here is what I would like to ask you guys about.

What level of sincerity is accepted on this forum?

I have seen Nicky state that people do not need to believe that Jesus and AJ are the same person, or that God is for real etc...
And I get that, in fact I feel like everyone has a full right to believe what they want to believe. God allows that, and who am I to say anything.

But God also has laws in place to correct us. So does he really allow it that much?

What I feel now, since the post with Chad, is that people can hide behind this allowance, and still post publicly their opinions which are not in line with God, without any desire to be corrected, and by saying that it should be allowed because the beliefs and acceptance should never be forced upon them.
I feel my hands are tight, when it comes to this issue. And I have to let go of any point I was making to this person, because he is waving the flag saying that he is only investigating the concepts of Truth and doesn't claim to be on the path to God & therefore nobody can say about him that he is insincere.
But why I have called him insincere, is not because he is not upfront about his lack of desire to be in line with God, but because he is on the forum where people are drawn to figure out what is blocking them to be at one with God, what the path is all about, and have some personal engagement with it.

I gather I have more fear to feel before I can embrace the answer in my heart.

But I would love to hear anyone's thoughts.

thank you,

Lena

edit:

I also feel that because he has stated that he doesn't want to embrace God's way just yet, as he is contemplating to try Natural Love path, nobody should say that he out of line in any way.

I did want to suggest to him to either prove that God's way is the only way to himself, or leave it until a better time for him. Otherwise he may find himself sitting on the fence for many years to come with such a attitude. But I am not sure if it a place for me to say anything anymore to him.

I would recommend that for a person who is in the position Chad is in, to mute them, so they can observe, and think about what is discussed on the forum, but not engaging and wasting everyone's time with their poitns of view and justifications.

Of course it is up to Nicky to decide.

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Re: Sincerity in people

Post by Mary » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:23 pm

Hi guys,

I'm just trying to catch up on forum stuff.

I'm preparing a response to Chad and I am also going to recommend to Nicky he be issued with a mute or ban (I'll outline in the response to Chad why).

Just briefly, as I told Lena on Thursday, when we met Chad his actual job was marketing gay porn. So, he is clearly not sincere about growing in love, and the fact that he is still justifying his injured viewpoint of this kind of exploitation as 'the law of attraction' then I don't see that he has a place on this forum as he has demonstrated that he is not sincere about learning about love, only in having intellectual arguments.

Lena, I chatted to Jesus about this issue because I wanted to try and help you with the injury that is causing you to engage with these guys (Chad and Reed) who have no desire to love, and who just want to abuse others. I feel that you need to look at why you end up having long engagements with these people. I can feel a compulsion in you about it - similar to how I feel with you and abusive women. I still can't put my finger on exactly what is causing you to do this and I suspect it is because it is driven by a fear that I also have of abusive people. We just respond somewhat differently to it. For example, I found that I had to force myself to sit down and read Chad and Reed's forum posts (I feel a yukky fear even just engaging emotionally with their abusive attitudes) When I posted the response about Jesus and my feelings about marketing on Thursday I didn't even fully read Chad's posts. I only did it this morning because I wanted to assist you to identify what the compulsion was in you that was causing you to continue conversation with him. Obviously, this is a great learning experience for me.

Anyway, I thought it would be good to mention it here publicly as it might be of benefit to Nicky and Elo also. Even if to just help you guys to become more sensitive to Lena, myself and abusive people generally.

Love
Mary

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Re: Sincerity in people

Post by Nicky » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:15 am

Hi guys

I have been going nuts (seriously) over the last 3 days reflecting and trying to feel about this issue between Lena and Reed/Chad as I have felt there is something pretty big going on but haven't been able to come to any degree of certainty with what the issues may be and that's why I haven't posted about it yet.

The only thing I can say is that Lena, when reading your posts to both Chad and Reed, even though I am agreeing with what you have said to them, I kinda feel something is "off" and there is some kind of addiction there. As Mary said, I think there must be a deeper reason as to why you are drawn into long conversations/debates with them.

With Reed, I feel he has a similar set of injuries as Monique - In the thread that you have engaged with him Lena, I strongly felt there was a dark motivation behind his sharing of somebody else's Facebook post on the forum which I think he did in a way to humiliate the person (who I have a strong feeling is another member here on the forum) as well as him saying "I'm not mentioning any names" before going ahead and posting it.

I'm feeling that I was maybe a bit too lenient with only issuing him with 1 amber strike recently and after feeling about his other post (the one Lena has been engaging with him) I reckon a red strike would have been more appropriate.

But thanks Mary for giving a bit of a background on Chad as I had no idea he was engaged in that kind of work previously (don't know if he is still doing it now) so now I can make more sense about his intentions and stuff now.

I am very much looking forward to reading your response to him Mary as well as any comments Jesus may have because I am just baffled at the moment as to what is really going on and God's Truth on the matter.

As a little note, both myself and Perry have been feeling horrendous the last few days, particularly today and it's been affecting me so I felt it wasn't best that I posted whilst in this space. It's so weird, we are both just feeling a sense of "impending doom" today especially and we haven't even seen each other the whole day until around an hour ago - only after chatting together have we both realised we have been feeling like this the whole day.

For the first time ever, since I came across Divine Truth, I've been feeling about earth changes this past week. Although I've listened to many hours of Jesus talking about them on videos, I've never really thought too much of it and I haven't really been too concerned about them. However, the Law of Attraction has been bombarding me with the two words "Earth Changes" this last week in so many ways and it has been so blatant. Maybe that is linked to this feeling of doom we are feeling, I don't know.

Love
Nicky

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Re: Sincerity in people

Post by Lena » Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:50 am

Thanks guys for taking time to feel about this.

I didn't realise you would want to do that for me, and I can't help to feel ashamed about everyone spending time to give me attention, but then I see that to understand the situation it is important to see both sides. So I guess I want to think it is not about me, but about the situation :P

Here are a few things that have come up today, as to why I have attracted such a men on this forum:

____
* By engaging people who are unloving & want to abuse others, who show no real sincerity, show resistance & reluctance to stretch themselves in order to love (basically make any effort); I place myself in a position of being abused, I make myself available to their abuse. I think this has some reasons I will write below, or maybe even more that I am slide to still.

* I also want to pander to these men & women alike, in guise to myself, that I am helping them in some way, I work extra hard; but in reality I just have a desire to change their behaviour, make them see it, in order to feel safer, by not having to draw the line with them in the beginning. So this one is really a self preserving act.

* I also doubt myself somehow addictively, so even when abuse is obvious & is no longer covered by a facade, or is just my feeling; I still feel not sure about their un-lovingness, and feel afraid that somehow it is my fault that I have made a mistake.

* I also feel terrible when I think to act what is in harmony with love, like I feel terrible after my latest post to Reed and locking the post. As if I am somehow seeking power over men (and some women), which I do not believe I want to do, and the fear of me doing that, is driving me crazy.


I don't think these are causes for what went on, but instead is somehow my learnt behaviour, reactions and false beliefs about myself and other people.

I thought I would just post it here about what I see, I have struggled with these issues for all of my life.

thanks again,

Lena

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Re: Sincerity in people

Post by Nicky » Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:17 pm

Hi Lena

You said
I just have a desire to change their behaviour, make them see it
When I read that part of your post, I thought yes I feel that is definitely one reason that makes sense to me. I think because of this, to me anyway, it comes across when reading your responses to them that you are "telling them off" about matters of truth and love, even though I feel the actual content of what you are saying to them is true. I remember reading one of your posts in this section a while ago where you stated that you have this tendency to tell someone off so I reckon this may be all linked in the same injury.

You said;
* I also feel terrible when I think to act what is in harmony with love, like I feel terrible after my latest post to Reed and locking the post. As if I am somehow seeking power over men (and some women), which I do not believe I want to do, and the fear of me doing that, is driving me crazy
I know exactly how you feel about this. I cannot even tell you how much I thought I did something terrible by standing up to angry women in the very early days of the forum feeling like I was the person in the wrong and it might be my own way of trying to get power and control over them, yet now I know that the reasons I felt like this was because of my own injuries with women.

Jesus advised me to trust my gut instincts when addressing women on the forum, so I did even though it was incredibly difficult for me to do so. I have definitely found the forum has been extremely uncomfortable for me many times (overwhelming stimuli), and there were times I was going crazy and in so much internal conflict/doubt over my actions, so I would say to trust your own instincts too, like you have done.

Also, something to mention, you had that private interaction with Pam around a week ago (whom is very manipulative, arrogant etc) where I felt the same kinda dynamic between yourself and these abusive men so I think this is quite a big thing that being shown to you at the moment towards both genders.

Thanks for locking the post, I will write up Reed's red strike shortly as I feel I am quite clear on his motivations and intentions in the thread and how they are related to his injuries of wanting superiority/dominance particularly over women, arrogance etc.

Love
Nicky

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Lena
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Re: Sincerity in people

Post by Lena » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:23 pm

Thanks Nicky,

So I wonder then, if 'telling off' comes across when we speak without love, and 'giving feedback' is when we do it with love...?

Now that I feel about it, I don't have any nice feelings about Chad or Reed, so that suggests that would greatly impact my ability to write feedback to them.

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Re: Sincerity in people

Post by Mary » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:21 pm

Hey Nicky & Lena,

You may already be all over this but something that really stands out for me in Reed's posts in the thread with Lena is his lack of transparency and honesty.

For example, he is supposedly asking a question about compassion but he isn't up-front about his (already held) strong opinions about what compassion is and is not. (He really doesn't have an idea about what it ACTUALLY is from God's perspective BUT he pretty arrogantly believes that he does know). It strikes me that a humble person would post in a more transparent way. For example they would be willing to expose their real thoughts and feelings while still seeking an answer e.g. "Look, I reckon the world doesn't have a clue about compassion. I don't like the following video or post because it feels off to me. Am I correct or do I have an error?"

Also, as you noted the "I'm not mentioning any names" line seems very strange and the way the facebook post is introduced it seems that either:

1. Reed is being lazy. He doesn't want to self reflect and explore his actual feelings enough to just explain them and/or ask questions. He wants other people to do that work and so he just posts a facebook post (or the video) to get people to discuss something he doesn't want to explore enough to describe his feelings. He wants other people to 'do the work' of figuring out what his point or question is, or,

2. He is trying to make a point through his posting 'questions' and isn't seeking answers at all - which is dishonest and not humble. Reed actually eventually got upset with you (Lena) for answering his "questions" e.g. when you gave your opinion on the facebook post being posted in addiction. This further indicates that there was no humble seeking on his part. He really just wanted to make a point - perhaps as Nicky mentioned to 'shame' someone else about their facebook posting.

So, if a person were more transparent (less in facade) and considerate with others (even if not yet very humble) they would either state that they want to make a point and aren't interested in feedback, they just want to express an opinion OR that they do want to ask a question and they take the time to feel about what is bothering them and explain that clearly to others.

Lena, you actually were drawn into the exchange with him. You tried to get him to ask questions. You also gave him an answer about the 'friend's' facebook post.

He likes the engagement with women. It gives him a chance to exert unpleasant emotions towards them and meets some addictions in him for attention from women. He likes to have women 'work' for him. He certainly doesn't see that as a gift. He simply has addictive emotional desires for sexual validation from women. To get this he draws them into exchanges in which they give him time, attention and approval. When the woman/women cease to give him this he then expresses rageful, angry, condescending emotions at them underneath a facade of 'innocence'. This entire dynamic originates in his relationship with his mother. I have the feeling that he had a mother who gave his a lot of sexual validation and did an extreme amount for him. He now feels entitled to this and gets rageful when he doesn't get it (Lena - if you think about your attractions with Igor there is a similar theme)

The only reason Reed responded to your original request for him to formulate his ideas into questions is that he wants women to engage with him and so he wrote the questions.

However at this point you had entered an addiction with him. In his initial post he had already displayed a lack of humility and a lack of desire to work his feelings out for himself (by either asking a question or make a statement of his opinion). This would have been the most appropriate thing to point out to him (rather than to ask him to formulate questions).

As I mentioned to you yesterday Lena, this is the point (where you entered the addiction) that I would return to emotionally for myself and examine what I felt when I read the first post and what caused me to ask him to formulate questions rather than just examine what I felt coming from Reed. At present, I think that it is difficult for you to be sensitive to the exact emotions you feel coming from these people, as you enter the addiction without much self awareness. So, this is an opportunity to start to develop awareness of the addiction (compulsion) that kicks in. If it were me, I would focus on that first up (rather than trying to analyze the emotions driving the addiction yet, as you first need to become sensitive to the initial feeling).

I was just mentioning this exchange again to Jesus because I do feel that there is something deeper going on for you Lena - rather than just acting in fear. I feel that there are spirits around you who do want to harm Divine Truth by having you give power and voice to people with quite dark intentions. They pressure you through your unhealed emotions to engage with abusive people.

Jesus mentioned that you give sexual validation to these guys who are quite sleazy and demand it from you. I agree that there is a resistance to feelings fear that causes you to justify complying with them but I think it is really important to become sensitive to exactly what you are giving to these guys before you can start to remedy it. I myself have had (am still working through) this issue (I'll give you a good example when I see you today - too long to write here!) Also, as we mentioned to each other yesterday it does feel like Pam is overcloaked by various people at various times and in her recent 'incarnation' as Hemlick I definitely felt like it was by a man. So that is also something interesting to consider. Though if I were you I would also explore whether or not I was giving sexual validation to women who demand it in the same way as I give it to men with similar feelings.

There are so many spirits who want to exploit our unhealed emotions in order for us to do harm to Divine Truth. I have been their willing tool so, so much over the years in ways that are just becoming clear to me (and ways I am sure I am still not sensitive to - though I really want to sort it out as quickly as possible now).

Nicky, I am planning on an audio recording for you and Perry (hopefully sometime today - but we'll see how things go).

Love
Mary

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Lena
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Re: Sincerity in people

Post by Lena » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:31 pm

Hi Mary,

Thank you for taking time to write this up.
I have no idea emotionally what the hell its all about.

I am feeling now, that it would be good to expose all of this to people on the forum, so they can also know that this is what has exactly happened, and is something not to copy or look up to.
I know this is in my soul and I will have to repent about it, but at least it can not affect other people.
This I feel will take away any power of my (these spirit's) engagements had. So basically people can look my posts as to what not to do, rather than what to do.

I will take time away from the forum to look at what you all said to me. I am not sure how to heal any of this, but I surely don't want to be a tool for any nasty intended people to screw up this beautiful opportunity for God's truth to be known.
In my eyes the forum is meant to be an example of what living in God's truth looks like. What taking loving action looks like. And I don't feel I do well either, in my private life or externally.
So I don't feel the forum is a good play ground for me at this stage. Or an opportunity that I am ready for on the soul level obviously.

There is a lot to feel about, I am greatful for you, Jesus, Nicky to have taken time to expose the full situation.
This has happened before on a a FB forum, when Moti has attacked me. Now I am not so sure if she was that wrong about my emotions. But there was so much pain in me from what I have done, however I haven't learnt from it.

That time you and Jesus said that I need to learn to draw a line with unloving people (it was Stephen Douglas) And for some reason I thought I was learning to do that now. I am not sure what went wrong, as you say, I am not aware of the emotional compulsion. I act out some other emotions.

If spirits are seeking power, then I must be too!

This time, what I saw was that there were several posts, that felt off to me. As the moderator I thought I needed to do something about it, but to be honest I didn't know what. This is probably is the compulsion part. Normally I report to Nicky here, as I don't know what to say to people, well not as well at this time, as I see other people write.
But than Mary you said that I am in addiction again, seeking Nicky's approval before I go and do something.

So I feel now that my addiction with spirits, is that they "help" me know what to do...maybe this is it!
So to avoid feeling powerless I seek help, but as I don't connect to the powerless feeling, then I guess God could never help me, but spirits did.


This is big stuff for me.

Thanks guys

Mary, I will come soon, just need to feel about this now first.

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Re: Sincerity in people

Post by Nicky » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:30 am

Hey guys

Thanks so much Mary for your feelings about Reed. I can totally understand it after reading your post on the matter.

I'll be honest, I did not consider or even conceive of point 1 that you raised, but yes now after reading it and your rationale, it makes sense that he may have had that intention behind his post.

Also, I felt he had quite a strong demand for attention for women but I did not conceive his demands being sexual in nature, which now makes complete sense. I am pretty shut down to any sexual based stuff due to my own injuries with that side of things as you and Jesus very much know...!

Mary, if it's ok with you, can I "steal" some of your post relating to Reed to use as a part of my strike thread? Just because you go into so much more detail than I can about things and I feel if I can provide a more thorough strike thread, it will hopefully have more of a benefit for all the other forum members who may take the time to read through it and feel about it.

I had no idea that Pam may have been overcloaked during her third stint on the forum as "Helmick." As anticipated, she wrote an extremely long private email back to me in response to learning that she had been banned again stating that Helmick was one of her maiden names amongst the usual stuff saying that I am judging her, turning my back on her and that God wouldn't etc (which I did listen to a few months ago but now I feel she is way off the truth with that).

With regards to the stuff going on for Lena, I would have never been close to getting that unless yourself and Jesus identified it. As I said I felt something was "off" but had no idea what it was exactly.

Ok awesome Mary, thank you. I look forward to hearing your audio clip when you have some time to do it for us. I know Perry has been pretty down for a while now (with his work situation and soul-mate stuff) so I think it may really help him.

Lena,

If you are happy to and if Mary feels it is a good idea, do you reckon it would be a good idea to reveal the emotions going on for Lena and Reed in the Reed thread (as well as the Chad one) so others can maybe learn from it?

Lena, I cannot agree about you thinking that you may have to take a certain amount of time away from the forum for a number of reasons due to some of my own personal experiences of the process.

Firstly, we aren't perfect, God knows that is the case as well as us. Secondly, I've made a ton of "mistakes" in love and received so much correction from both Jesus/Mary since the forum went live but I do not see them as "mistakes" or something to feel bad about because if we don't continue with the experiment and stop taking action, we will never get anywhere and our learning process will be much slower. I can tell you for an absolute fact that if I didn't create the forum and choose not to embrace the process, I would probably have only learnt very little and maybe not even progressed much at all in comparison to what I have actually learnt in only a few short months - particularly with the continued, patient and generous support of Jesus and Mary whom I seriously cannot thank enough.

I feel if you take on board what Mary has said about trying to become more sensitive about any compulsions you may feel before writing a post out, you will learn so much more at such a faster rate whilst still engaging on the forum rather than withdrawing from it. If you do it again in the future, it's no big deal - in fact I feel you will begin identifying the compulsions much better by doing this. I totally understand that you may want to take a number of days away to feel about the feedback Mary has given but I feel withdrawing from the forum because of it for a prolonged amount of time maybe isn't the most loving/humble choice to yourself.

Of course it's totally up to you and I don't mind if you do decide to take that route but I just feel you've kind of had a knee-jerk reaction to the feedback without letting yourself feel into it for a significant amount of time.

Hope that makes sense.

Love
Nicky

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Mary
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Re: Sincerity in people

Post by Mary » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:57 am

Hi again,

Jesus just reminded me to point out that both Reed and Chad have been previously banned from interactions with Jesus and I via private emails.

I'm sorry Nicky that they probably weren't on your list.

If you like I can send you copies of our previous correspondence with them.

Also, I'll try to be more attentive when I notice that people who have had previous issues with us enter the forum. I just haven't visited over the last few weeks very much at all.

MM

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