Prayer on Earth vs Prayer in Spirit World
- Jennifer Brownson
- Muted
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- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:36 pm
- Location: Snowflake, AZ, USA
Prayer on Earth vs Prayer in Spirit World
Hi Everyone,
I have some questions about prayer I have been wanting to ask Jesus and Mary, so this could have gone in the Divine Truth section too. And of course I would be delighted for their input!
Firstly, Is there is any difference in praying (I mean Jesus's definition of prayer, sincerely and passionately longing for God's Divine Love) while on Earth compared to if I was to pass and be praying in the spirit world--or perhaps while I am asleep and in the spirit world at night? By difference, I mean is there any difference in quality? Is it any more powerful to Pray while on Earth? I recall that the effects are more immediately visible to those in the spirit world, but aren't the effects on the soul equally immediate?
As I am writing and reading the questions I feel like I am being reminded that faith is something that is involved more while on Earth, so I could imagine that because more faith is required to pray with sincerity and passion, that perhaps there is a difference. Hmm.
Do spirits get involved just as much when praying from here (Earth) as there (Spirit World)?
Again ideas are coming up: Perhaps since spirits can only easily see a person in the spirit world of equal or lesser development (like different spheres), maybe there wouldn't be quite as much observing going on from spirits less loving than the person praying. Whereas on Earth if I am remembering correctly, just about any spirit can (once they know how to come here) see someone praying here. And because most of us are still in the first sphere on Earth, perhaps that is not a big factor yet.
When I pray for another person, like... "God, Would you do whatever you can and use my love for Angela (my friend who has cancer) in any way you can to assist her to grow her desire for Truth and her desire to feel the root cause of her cancer"... does that have the same effect (other than the faith factor) basically if prayed from here as there?
Haha It is fun to notice the opportunity for developing our channeling abilities as we participate on this forum! I don't write much normally... perhaps I should do some of the channeling exercises Jesus suggests!I look forward to hearing input from the group. Prayer is one of my favorite topics.
I have some questions about prayer I have been wanting to ask Jesus and Mary, so this could have gone in the Divine Truth section too. And of course I would be delighted for their input!
Firstly, Is there is any difference in praying (I mean Jesus's definition of prayer, sincerely and passionately longing for God's Divine Love) while on Earth compared to if I was to pass and be praying in the spirit world--or perhaps while I am asleep and in the spirit world at night? By difference, I mean is there any difference in quality? Is it any more powerful to Pray while on Earth? I recall that the effects are more immediately visible to those in the spirit world, but aren't the effects on the soul equally immediate?
As I am writing and reading the questions I feel like I am being reminded that faith is something that is involved more while on Earth, so I could imagine that because more faith is required to pray with sincerity and passion, that perhaps there is a difference. Hmm.
Do spirits get involved just as much when praying from here (Earth) as there (Spirit World)?
Again ideas are coming up: Perhaps since spirits can only easily see a person in the spirit world of equal or lesser development (like different spheres), maybe there wouldn't be quite as much observing going on from spirits less loving than the person praying. Whereas on Earth if I am remembering correctly, just about any spirit can (once they know how to come here) see someone praying here. And because most of us are still in the first sphere on Earth, perhaps that is not a big factor yet.
When I pray for another person, like... "God, Would you do whatever you can and use my love for Angela (my friend who has cancer) in any way you can to assist her to grow her desire for Truth and her desire to feel the root cause of her cancer"... does that have the same effect (other than the faith factor) basically if prayed from here as there?
Haha It is fun to notice the opportunity for developing our channeling abilities as we participate on this forum! I don't write much normally... perhaps I should do some of the channeling exercises Jesus suggests!I look forward to hearing input from the group. Prayer is one of my favorite topics.
Re: Prayer on Earth vs Prayer in Spirit World
Hey Jennifer, I can add some input that I hope helps. Firstly I don't know but I can speculate from the little experience I have and mostly from what I've heard.
I'd say that because God doesn't want a relationship with our bodies (spirit / physcial) but just our real selves (soul) whether we are here or passed makes no difference because our soul apparently doesn't change based on the location of our bodies. Also as prayer is an act that opens up our soul to God's love, how much love we receive in our soul from God is determined by how much we want it and desire is also an attribute of the soul that doesn't change based on location.
But having said that I'm sure there's a few almost unavoidable realisations that might help shift our desire when we pass. One would be that there's no death, another might be that there's many people who care for us and our real growth in love. Many of those would like to assist us with our desire for God. So that would help I guess.
Thing is earth is like a practice ground, so I'm led to believe God designed it this way so we have a bit of a buffer between our unloving intentions and desires and our choice to act on them. Means we've got s bit of time to observe the effects of our will and that learning is a bit more slowly paced so to speak. Like putting training wheels on bikes or something like that.
Because like you say our desires and intentions are manifested straight away in the spirit world, if our desire for God isnt developed much here then when we pass it would be even harder. So very likely we wouldn't pray to God there.
Anyway AJ has talked about all this in various seminars which I'm just paraphrasing as best I can.
Hope that answers it a bit.
I'd say that because God doesn't want a relationship with our bodies (spirit / physcial) but just our real selves (soul) whether we are here or passed makes no difference because our soul apparently doesn't change based on the location of our bodies. Also as prayer is an act that opens up our soul to God's love, how much love we receive in our soul from God is determined by how much we want it and desire is also an attribute of the soul that doesn't change based on location.
But having said that I'm sure there's a few almost unavoidable realisations that might help shift our desire when we pass. One would be that there's no death, another might be that there's many people who care for us and our real growth in love. Many of those would like to assist us with our desire for God. So that would help I guess.
Thing is earth is like a practice ground, so I'm led to believe God designed it this way so we have a bit of a buffer between our unloving intentions and desires and our choice to act on them. Means we've got s bit of time to observe the effects of our will and that learning is a bit more slowly paced so to speak. Like putting training wheels on bikes or something like that.
Because like you say our desires and intentions are manifested straight away in the spirit world, if our desire for God isnt developed much here then when we pass it would be even harder. So very likely we wouldn't pray to God there.
Anyway AJ has talked about all this in various seminars which I'm just paraphrasing as best I can.
Hope that answers it a bit.
- Jennifer Brownson
- Muted
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:36 pm
- Location: Snowflake, AZ, USA
Re: Prayer on Earth vs Prayer in Spirit World
Thank you Alkhemst. You brought up something that I didn't think of... that in the spirit world, I imagine that more folks are more aware of their guides and spirit friends ('the people who care for us', as you put it), so any feedback about our Prayers, like if we are stuck in self deception or if we still have 75% more to go on a certain emotion would be more easily acquired. I understand we can develop that awareness here too, but I am not there yet. I frequently feel like I am 'going on faith' between the times when I do feel a burst of Love, or a deepening of an emotion that I didn't realize could go any deeper. I look forward to the time when I can more easily communicate with my guides... and God too!
Re: Prayer on Earth vs Prayer in Spirit World
Hey Jen, Im glad it brought another way to look at it. I reckon maybe you didn't catch my meaning completly so I'll try to explain it a bit better.
You know with that analogy of the bike with training wheels above, that on earth the training wheels are on and when we pass they are off?
Well imagine there's a bike for different parts of our will and those parts are about developing desire, which is an act of our will. One bike might be the desire for God, another might be the desire to connect with our guides, another might be the desire to get all our addictions met.
When we have training wheels on we can still ride the bike a bit and we don't fall off as much. Say we choose to ride the addiction bike most of the time. After a while the desire around that would grow really strong, we'd get really good at riding that bike compared to the others.
So when we pass the training wheels are off and it would be really hard to want to get on those bikes we didn't practice on much. Who eants to just fall off all the time? So we'd most likely just gravitate to the one we know best and can ride well. Means the tendency to stick with that one would be very strong as well.
I got the sense from what you wrote that it's better to wait till you pass to connect with God and your guides, which wasn't what I meant and if the above analogy is sound its means that's a false belief. It seems it's better to develop our will towards what we say we want here
You know with that analogy of the bike with training wheels above, that on earth the training wheels are on and when we pass they are off?
Well imagine there's a bike for different parts of our will and those parts are about developing desire, which is an act of our will. One bike might be the desire for God, another might be the desire to connect with our guides, another might be the desire to get all our addictions met.
When we have training wheels on we can still ride the bike a bit and we don't fall off as much. Say we choose to ride the addiction bike most of the time. After a while the desire around that would grow really strong, we'd get really good at riding that bike compared to the others.
So when we pass the training wheels are off and it would be really hard to want to get on those bikes we didn't practice on much. Who eants to just fall off all the time? So we'd most likely just gravitate to the one we know best and can ride well. Means the tendency to stick with that one would be very strong as well.
I got the sense from what you wrote that it's better to wait till you pass to connect with God and your guides, which wasn't what I meant and if the above analogy is sound its means that's a false belief. It seems it's better to develop our will towards what we say we want here
- Jennifer Brownson
- Muted
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:36 pm
- Location: Snowflake, AZ, USA
Re: Prayer on Earth vs Prayer in Spirit World
Hi Alkhemst, Actually I did understand what you were saying. I just didn't feel the need to respond to all of it. It was your mention of spirit friends that made me realize something I hadn't thought of. And I wasn't implying or even thinking it is better to wait until we pass. I am all for doing the work here on Earth in the training ground, as you described. Not that I am all that successful at clearing things, ha ha, but I keep working at it.
Re: Prayer on Earth vs Prayer in Spirit World
I may have misread what you said, it was more a sense of maybe frustration at not progressing here much which you mentioned above too, and hoping to validate an expectation it will somehow be easier later. It seemed to be the gist behind the question at the beginning too. And that might be why you latched on to just a part of my response. Mind you its just my speculation which may or may not be helpful.Jennifer Brownson wrote:I am all for doing the work here on Earth in the training ground, as you described. Not that I am all that successful at clearing things, ha ha, but I keep working at it.
Anyway I just put in bold the parts that led me to this opinion as below too.
Jennifer Brownson wrote:I imagine that more folks are more aware of their guides and spirit friends ('the people who care for us', as you put it), so any feedback about our Prayers, like if we are stuck in self deception or if we still have 75% more to go on a certain emotion would be more easily acquired...
- Jennifer Brownson
- Muted
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:36 pm
- Location: Snowflake, AZ, USA
Re: Prayer on Earth vs Prayer in Spirit World
Hi David,
I had to take a few days to feel a number of emotions that came up for me in our interaction before getting back to you. You didn't know you were going to provide such a service to me did you!? I feel much better, rather light hearted about it now. This forum is such a great tool. (by the way, I am not claiming to totally clear ANYthing in just a few days, but I really do feel much better. I will keep going with it though).
So, in your first reply, the reason I did not respond to your comments about God wanting a relationship with our souls, and the Earth being the training ground is because I totally agree! I found it ironic that you interpreted my lack of comment to mean that I did not understand you or perhaps that I disagreed. Not at all. I actually use the analogy of the training ground myself when discussing Truths with others too. Perhaps we both have errors around feeling unheard or misunderstood?
As far as my frustrations and beliefs about it being better in the spirit world... I definitely DO believe my experience in the spirit world after I pass is going to be better than what I am experiencing right now, but that's only because I believe I will live a long life. But if I died today, it would be no better, and perhaps even harder to progress since we get surrounded by people in the same emotional errors. I am aware that I cannot escape going through the difficult emotions that I currently am working through no matter where I am. (I don't like that fact, but its true). I don't agree with you that I believe it is better to wait until after I pass to connect with spirit friends or God. I know I said "I am not all that successful at clearing things", but I have actually become very passionate about God and having a relationship with Her/Him now while on Earth, and growing in desire to know my spirit friends too. I pray and feel deeply with God every day, and I plan to live a long life, so by the time I get to the spirit world (and maybe I will even be at one with God!--like I said, a LONG life ha ha) I would hope that it will be just as awesome as I imagine it can be (or better!), but only if we are in a good condition. Like all of the spirit world, the structure of even the hells is totally loving, but from what I have read and heard from Jesus and Mary, the hells can be pretty hellish, so I have no desire to be in the spirit world (any more than I have to be while asleep!) while I am in the condition I am currently in!
I do get frustrated at times at how slowly I feel I am progressing, but those times of frustration seem to come and go and probably correspond with whether I am in an upswing or downswing in my progression. The law of attraction brought to me just the other day a piece of Jesus's lecture about how frustration can be anger at ourselves for not achieving... a self deception emotion if we keep trying to release frustration instead of feel WHY we learned to have angry demands of ourselves. He said we can cry for years and get nowhere, until we face the cause of how we learned to do that.
Lastly I want to say that even though this wasn't the deepest of topics to start, I noticed that we moved the focus of this discussion away from Prayer and Truth (who knows where it could lead?) and towards an analysis of my emotions. I didn't feel good about that. What do you think about that? Perhaps some spirit influence? Certainly I think it has been a good outcome for me as I got to feel lots of emotions (and like I said before, I will keep going with those feelings), but it seems like it took a turn that might make it less inviting for others to participate in. Or perhaps this is perfect! Thank you, David for this exercise. Cheers.
I had to take a few days to feel a number of emotions that came up for me in our interaction before getting back to you. You didn't know you were going to provide such a service to me did you!? I feel much better, rather light hearted about it now. This forum is such a great tool. (by the way, I am not claiming to totally clear ANYthing in just a few days, but I really do feel much better. I will keep going with it though).
So, in your first reply, the reason I did not respond to your comments about God wanting a relationship with our souls, and the Earth being the training ground is because I totally agree! I found it ironic that you interpreted my lack of comment to mean that I did not understand you or perhaps that I disagreed. Not at all. I actually use the analogy of the training ground myself when discussing Truths with others too. Perhaps we both have errors around feeling unheard or misunderstood?
As far as my frustrations and beliefs about it being better in the spirit world... I definitely DO believe my experience in the spirit world after I pass is going to be better than what I am experiencing right now, but that's only because I believe I will live a long life. But if I died today, it would be no better, and perhaps even harder to progress since we get surrounded by people in the same emotional errors. I am aware that I cannot escape going through the difficult emotions that I currently am working through no matter where I am. (I don't like that fact, but its true). I don't agree with you that I believe it is better to wait until after I pass to connect with spirit friends or God. I know I said "I am not all that successful at clearing things", but I have actually become very passionate about God and having a relationship with Her/Him now while on Earth, and growing in desire to know my spirit friends too. I pray and feel deeply with God every day, and I plan to live a long life, so by the time I get to the spirit world (and maybe I will even be at one with God!--like I said, a LONG life ha ha) I would hope that it will be just as awesome as I imagine it can be (or better!), but only if we are in a good condition. Like all of the spirit world, the structure of even the hells is totally loving, but from what I have read and heard from Jesus and Mary, the hells can be pretty hellish, so I have no desire to be in the spirit world (any more than I have to be while asleep!) while I am in the condition I am currently in!
I do get frustrated at times at how slowly I feel I am progressing, but those times of frustration seem to come and go and probably correspond with whether I am in an upswing or downswing in my progression. The law of attraction brought to me just the other day a piece of Jesus's lecture about how frustration can be anger at ourselves for not achieving... a self deception emotion if we keep trying to release frustration instead of feel WHY we learned to have angry demands of ourselves. He said we can cry for years and get nowhere, until we face the cause of how we learned to do that.
Lastly I want to say that even though this wasn't the deepest of topics to start, I noticed that we moved the focus of this discussion away from Prayer and Truth (who knows where it could lead?) and towards an analysis of my emotions. I didn't feel good about that. What do you think about that? Perhaps some spirit influence? Certainly I think it has been a good outcome for me as I got to feel lots of emotions (and like I said before, I will keep going with those feelings), but it seems like it took a turn that might make it less inviting for others to participate in. Or perhaps this is perfect! Thank you, David for this exercise. Cheers.
Re: Prayer on Earth vs Prayer in Spirit World
Happy to answer the questions you have about me as best I can for now:
- The feeling of being unheard and misunderstood has come up before a fair bit, so that's a factor definitely.
- Seems I sounded too sure of my interpretations, something definitely for me to look at much more
- spirit influence, well I reckon there's more an addiction to approval for me (here, there and everywhere!), more than those things above bit while all that's driving me I'm certainly wide open to influence. So I can't discount that at all.
Hope that clarifies some things and I'm glad you found something worthwhile for you in this too. It's certainly hard when someone comes along and points something out about us, whether its right or wrong - as you said the law of attraction helps us to self assess more deeply about ourselves and eventually feel more too - which I find at least good to know when I don't know what's going on!
- The feeling of being unheard and misunderstood has come up before a fair bit, so that's a factor definitely.
- Seems I sounded too sure of my interpretations, something definitely for me to look at much more
- spirit influence, well I reckon there's more an addiction to approval for me (here, there and everywhere!), more than those things above bit while all that's driving me I'm certainly wide open to influence. So I can't discount that at all.
Hope that clarifies some things and I'm glad you found something worthwhile for you in this too. It's certainly hard when someone comes along and points something out about us, whether its right or wrong - as you said the law of attraction helps us to self assess more deeply about ourselves and eventually feel more too - which I find at least good to know when I don't know what's going on!
- Mary
- DT Teacher
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Re: Prayer on Earth vs Prayer in Spirit World
I have just issued Jennifer with a red strike for her responses to Alkhemist in this thread.
http://forum.divinetruthhub.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=291
I haven't locked the topic as the points that Alkhemist raised may be points of discussion for others. However this thread is not the place to discuss disciplinary action taken and I am sure that Nicky will lock the thread if that occurs.
Cheers,
Mary
http://forum.divinetruthhub.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=291
I haven't locked the topic as the points that Alkhemist raised may be points of discussion for others. However this thread is not the place to discuss disciplinary action taken and I am sure that Nicky will lock the thread if that occurs.
Cheers,
Mary
Re: Prayer on Earth vs Prayer in Spirit World
Hi Mary,
Thank you again for bringing all these things up for me.
I suppose if I can take a leaf out of my own book from what I said to Jennifer above - its obviously better to do this now than some future time at passing, which to be honest I've fantasised about it somehow being easier to do at some later point in time too.
I know Ive never really responded back to Jesus on all he advised which I feel now is rather ungreatful of me, he has always been kind and willing to be quite responsive to me many times. Even though I felt no expectation from him to reciprocate, I havent much at all extended the same back. I feel really sorry about that now for what it's worth.
love,
David
Thank you again for bringing all these things up for me.
I know what you say here and what Jesus told me before is the truth. I can see there's a deep emotional wound in me to not love myself and I'm addicted to this wound so much so that I really feel that without it, I can't be loved by others, especially women. It scares me to the bone to act otherwise most of the time. And it seems I'll continue to attract events like this to show me my true condition and my real self beliefs while I continue to resist acting on what I'm now beginning to feel is true.Obviously however your acceptance of blame and anger projections from women is something that Jesus has attempted to raise with you in the past and has a large bearing on your unhappiness. In the past you have completely ignored his comments to you about this and yet this interaction here on the forum is another attraction demonstrating this injury within your soul.
I also observe that, not only were you very kind with Jennifer (which is lovely), but you also took the time to self reflect when she prompted you to...
While I see this as a humble response, I notice that you seem to be willing to self reflect at the direction of an angry woman but you resist doing so when a loving man prompts you to. This is obviously an issue that will impede your growth towards God.
I suppose if I can take a leaf out of my own book from what I said to Jennifer above - its obviously better to do this now than some future time at passing, which to be honest I've fantasised about it somehow being easier to do at some later point in time too.
I know Ive never really responded back to Jesus on all he advised which I feel now is rather ungreatful of me, he has always been kind and willing to be quite responsive to me many times. Even though I felt no expectation from him to reciprocate, I havent much at all extended the same back. I feel really sorry about that now for what it's worth.
love,
David
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