Parenting challenges.

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Abram
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Re: Parenting challenges.

Post by Abram » Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:12 pm

Inside Out by Dr. Larry Crabb?

Elvira
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Re: Parenting challenges.

Post by Elvira » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:46 am

Hi Abram (how do you prefer to be addressed?)

hopefully I'm not in addiction responding to you this time! I relate so much to how you are feeling. It seems to be that you have worked a lot of it out yourself. I think why I can relate to what you say because like me you like to intellectualize and you want to know exactly what you have to do. I can't think now how many times Jesus has said to me 'Elvira, you want a manual'. For me that covers over many huge fears, like I really just can't do this, I don't know how, I get it all wrong, I'm afraid to be wrong (a lot under that), I'm a terrible person who will never work it out..... You also seem very hard on yourself as soon as things aren't going how you think they should. This is a process, it doesn't happen over night. Maybe if instead of seeing your children's behaviour as the problem see it as God is showing me the next thing I need to feel/reflect on. Accept that you are going to keep getting it wrong in this process, otherwise you could like me spend a lot time torturing yourself by beating yourself up (all another avoidance). Mary's post about self punishment might be useful for you (it helped me a lot). If Jesus and Mary read this I think they may find it funny that I would be talking to someone about being patient with themselves and this process.

Abram
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Re: Parenting challenges.

Post by Abram » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:27 pm

Elvira,

Your assessment of me seems spot on. I'm so afraid to be wrong, to damage my children, to be a bad parent, etc. I've said before that I lack faith in the process and I think all this reflects my lack of faith both in myself and the process. I guess how I was feeling about all this is what I should be feeling as it is reflects my law of attraction lately (i'm not good enough/shame/fear of failure).

I really do want to intellectualize everything and don't want to trust that it will all work it's way out. Right now I'm thinking "these feelings may be what I need to feel, but are probably deceiving emotions and i'm probably not even in the causal emotions" so I'm afraid of staying in these unproductive emotions forever and never addressing the core issues. My fear is driving me to ask for help figuring out what the causal emotions are underneath shame issues.

I feel this pressure to show some positive results as my wife is skeptical of all this and has been saying "you're always in a bad mood...show me the benefit of doing all this (referring to being humble to my emotions)". I've been questioning all this myself and resort to self-punishment (even though I disguise it as, "I need to keep figuring all this out so I can be better at it", which is probably my fear of failure and not being good enough resulting in pushing myself by spending countless hours reflecting about it all instead of feeling it. It's so hard to just trust feeling what I feel knowing I can stay in self-deceiving emotions forever.

Thanks again for your feedback. Where is Mary's post about self-punishment?

Elvira
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Re: Parenting challenges.

Post by Elvira » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:48 pm

Hi Abram
sorry I didn't think that you may not have come across Mary's blog. Here is a link
http://mary.divinetruth.com/

Self punishment is a very insidious addiction. Every time I have thought yeh I get it now how much I self punish I have found out later that I really had no idea, it is like I get more subtle how I go about it in order to continue. It feels like it is also underneath the way you are pushing yourself. I have caught myself doing that a lot lately, it often helps to just realize that is what is going on. You have to really want to see and stop doing it which has often been a block for me. It has just always felt like the right thing to do. I think now about Mary's blog and the way in which I have used self punishment to get myself off the hook for my sin (although it is causing me and those around me endless suffering) and of course not wanting to feel what is underneath. It means that the things I am punishing myself for continue because I am not dealing with the underlying cause. It is a very arduous and painful way to go about this process and attracts a lot of spirits to help you in attacking yourself. Best wishes with it all. Elvira

Abram
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Re: Parenting challenges.

Post by Abram » Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:59 pm

Thanks Elvira. Mary's post makes a lot of sense and your explanation as well. I'm curious as to how you self punish or how this can manifest as it can be deceiving. For instance, my initial reaction is to think that I'm not really self punishing. I want to think that pushing myself to grow in love, be a better parent, a better person, etc. is all a healthy desire to have.

As I begin to deconstruct it as Mary explains in her post, I begin to recognize that what is motivating these desires is fear. Following this trail I recognize that I'm afraid of causing pain to my children, being judged by others, fear of failing, and/or fear of not being good enough. I wonder how this reflects whether I am avoiding the pain others have caused me or the pain I have caused others or both. I guess I could be avoiding the pain I have caused my kids by focusing on how to be a better parent. In addition, it would make sense that I'm avoiding the pain of not feeling good enough, which is the effect of the pain that was caused to me.

I wonder what a true desire to grow in love looks like if it is not fueled by fear? How is it different? Maybe it's simply just not motivated by fear or maybe if failure happens there is no shame or guilt?

Elvira
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Re: Parenting challenges.

Post by Elvira » Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:58 pm

Hi Abram,
I think you are in what I call for myself a 'mind whir' where you are trying to find all the answers and think your way to feeling. I can tell you from long experience that it will never work, I have demented and disconnected from myself with that addiction to avoid my fear a lot. I find that I do need to understand Divine Truth teachings in my mind initially but I am continuously surprised how I thought I understood something when I really didn't because It was only in my mind and not a feeling experience. Something which I found helped me is whenever you think of it during the day is to just stop for a moment, take a few really deep breaths (which in and of itself was challenging, I was a very shallow breather, living in my mind. I would sometimes start to shake with fear just doing that) ask God for help and just connect with 'how am I feeling right now' It doesn't sound like much to do, but you might be surprised what you uncover. The goal wasn't to get to anger, fear, causal etc (because I push myself and would have failed in the pushing, another addiction) just to begin to connect with myself and get out of my head.
All my best Elvira

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Nicky
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Re: Parenting challenges.

Post by Nicky » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:25 am

Hi Abram

I have not posted in here as I do not have any direct experience with the topic, as I don't have any kids therefore would not really know what to advise you!

However, what I am starting to notice is that you are beginning to creep into addiction. I feel many of the other forum members have given you a ton of awesome information that you have been exploring further which is great. However, now I feel you are posting and asking further questions in avoidance of going through the feeling process that has been outlined. Your latest post is coming from a place of procrastination I reckon.

Elvira has felt this but she has responded to you in a vey polite and kind way in an attempt to highlight the addiction in your latest post. I just thought it'd be best if I was more direct with you.

Cheers

Nicky

Abram
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Re: Parenting challenges.

Post by Abram » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:37 pm

Niky and Elvira,

I’m so afraid to not understand what it is I’m supposed to do. When I was young I used to be criticized and shamed for not understanding how to do something or for making mistakes. I felt and believed I was stupid and this belief ran my life in many ways. In order to not feel stupid I have pushed myself to understand that which I and/or others have deemed important.

This addiction to understand things completely covers my worth issues and large fears. As I felt what you and others have been telling me I found myself wanting to justify trying to understand more (“How can it be wrong to want to understand things better so that I can do it correctly?). Although there may be some truth in that statement it keeps me from feeling. I have intellectually understood how it keeps me from feeling, but haven’t really understood it from a soul based level. I’m really afraid to have faith that by feeling things I will gain clarity and understanding.

I can see how this is playing out in my life. For instance, I have spent countless hours listening to and watching Divine Truth material in an effort to understand, yet have neglected the feeling part. Another example is that I often ask for clarifiers when others ask me a question and I imagine my fear of giving the wrong answer fuels my need to make clear what the question is asking. I have used this pursuit of information gathering as a way to avoid feeling more. Although I have become more humble emotionally, my progression in this area has and continues to be stalled by my unwillingness to feel when I don’t understand something, doubt myself, have a lack of faith in something, etc..

After reading back on this thread and others I’ve posted I can see how I’ve been avoiding the feeling part by asking more clarifying questions. Elvira pointed out my desire to intellectualize everything and gave me some great feedback and I reflected on it intellectually, though haven’t really sat with the feelings associated to this addiction. As I do my emotional responses are denial, frustration, not wanting to accept it like feeling rebellious about it all and wanting to justify this addiction. I’m pissed (not at you all) that this is my addiction as I see so much benefit in pursuing knowledge and understanding, though I'm really feeling afraid to let this go. I’ve used the pursuit of knowledge and understanding to prevent from feeling unworthy and alone. I will continue to feel about this addiction.

Thank you all for helping me recognize all this.

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Nicky
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Re: Parenting challenges.

Post by Nicky » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:19 pm

Hey Abram

A suggestion here.....You know what you just said in your latest response to Elvira and myself, try saying the exact same thing to God and see what happens.

An experiment, right? why not?

Nicky

Abram
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Re: Parenting challenges.

Post by Abram » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:43 pm

Great idea...I'll give it a go. My relationship with God is pretty much non existent and so I don't often try to ask for support to feel about these issues.

The more I feel and reflect on these issues of mine I am beginning to see how the issues from my childhood are playing out in various facets in my life. For instance, my fear of being stupid and rejected creates so much anxiety when I am with new people or are sharing information that I'm not really confident about. I will often avoid sharing to avoid humiliation and rejection. This is related to my addiction to understand everything completely instead of feeling the fear.

Another example is how easily frustrated I get with my children for things that don't matter (i.e., them leaving toys out or making a mess). My father would get really angry with me about things that didn't really matter as well. I am beginning to recognize how my fear of going through the underlined and causal emotions of fear and grief related to how I was raised is pushing me to perpetuate this damage on my children and others. I catch myself getting angry and frustrated with them and then will feel some repentance emotions, though am still really afraid or blocked for some reason from the other deeper emotions.

I do need help with facing these emotions and asking for support from God and my spirit guides would be helpful.

Thanks again.

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